Some questions on modding Halo 2

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Jon God
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Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by Jon God »

So, after the Master Chief Collection launched and didn't work, I went back to Halo 2, and started up LAN parties again.

After the first one, people wanted more. The first thing I did was get a softmod to allow us to use the 2 last maps, which weren't on 2 of the original Xboxes I own. I realized though, that I could also mod Halo.

I had made a list a while back of what I'd consider 'the perfect balance' of Halo, taking cues from Halo 1, 2 and 3. Just kinda for fun. Now I am thinking about trying to make this happen. I was curious if this is feasable at all, here's my list:

Code: Select all

Weapons:

Weapon: Battle Rifle
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: This would be just as it is in Halo 2, no changes.



Weapon: Magnum
Core Balance: Halo 3
Dual Wield: Yes
	One Handed: More sticky Aim
	Two Handed: Less sticky Aim
Notes: As mentioned above, would behave the same as Halo 3 when dual wielded, but would have more sticky aim when single wielded.



Weapon: SMG
Core Balance: Halo 3
Dual Wield: Yes
	One Handed: Slightly More Acurate
	Two Handed: Slightly Less Acurate
Notes: Would be very similar to Halo 3 SMGs, with only the minor above changes



Weapon: Rocket Launcher
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: Halo 2 standard



Weapon: Shotgun
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: Halo 3 Shotgun, with the 12 shot magazine of Halo 2



Weapon: Sniper Rifle
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: Stock Halo 2



Weapon: Energy Sword
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: It would function just like the Halo 2 sword, with the only difference being the weapon charge from Halo 3 included as an option, defaulted to on.



Weapon: Plasma Pistol
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: Yes
	One Handed: Would fire more like Halo 1's Plasma Pistol(Quicker, more damage), with single shots homing a lot more, and a slight stun effect. Charge up attack homing would be reduced.
	Two Handed: Stock Halo 2 Plasma Pistol
Notes: The reason for these changes would give the pistol by itself a use, and not be reduced to a side weapon for annoying combos, on the flip side, the longer switch weapon time, and having to potentially drop the weapon between charges would make it less annoying as a noob combo weapon.



Weapon: Plasma Rifle
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: Yes
	One Handed: Would work more like the Halo 1 Plasma Rifle, with a harsh stun effect.
	Two Handed: Would work like the Halo 2 Plasma Rifle, and work really well as a dual wield weapon.
Notes: The reason for the changes would make the rifle much better as a stand alone weapon, when not dual wielding.



Weapon: Needler
Core Balance: Halo 3
Dual Wield: Yes
	One Handed: This would act just like the Halo 3 Needler, no changes
	Two Handed: This would act like the Halo 2 needler, but with a small damage increase, and slightly better homing.
Notes: Another change to increase the usefulness of a weapon that wasn't very good on it's own.



Weapon: Covenant Sniper
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: It would be changed to be slightly less sticky aim for longer range sniping, but would be a bit easier to no scope with, making it stand out from the Halo 2 version of the weapon, and giving it it's own place in the balance of the sandbox.



Weapon: Carbine
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: The only change made here would be to make it able to carry a little more ammo.



Weapon: Brute Shot
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: For normal firing it would be essentially the same, but as an alternate secondary fire, you could hold down the trigger, which would have the grenade not explode until you release the trigger, which could be timed for explosions on contact with some skill. This would do more damage, at the cost of speed.



Weapon: Spartan Laser
Core Balance: Halo 3
Dual Wield: No
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: Stock Halo 3



Weapon: Frag Grenade
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: N/A
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: Stock Halo 2



Weapon: Plasma Grenade
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: N/A
	One Handed: N/A
	Two Handed: N/A
Notes: Stock Halo 2





Vehicles:



Vehicle: Standard Warthog
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: Make it easier to reload without getting out of vehicle for the passenger seat.



Vehicle: Gauss Warthog
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: Same as normal warthog



Vehicle: Scorpion
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: First change would be to switch the machine gun with the machine gun from the Halo 1 tank. Second change would be to make the driver able to be sniped without having to be boarded first. Added second seat could fire a machine gun closer to the Halo 3 machine gun, but only in 270º or so.



Vehicle: Ghost
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: Stock Halo 2



Vehicle: Banshee
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: Stock Halo 2



Vehicle: Wraith
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: Added second seat from Halo 3, for covenant machine guns.


Vehicle: Stationary Human Turret
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: No changes here



Vehicle: Stationary Covenant Turret
Core Balance: Halo 3
Notes: This would work similarly to the detachable turret from Halo 3.




Question Marks:

Third person carried weapons
Mauler
Silenced SMG
Also, a big thing, is the Halo 2 Magnum's damage unchangable post patch? I tried changing the damage on the jpt!, then I tried a different jpt!, then I tried a different projectile tied to a different jpt!, and it always seemed to do the same amount of damage. Any ideas?

Thanks
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JacksonCougar
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by JacksonCougar »

Just random things to try but try cloning the weapon tag and re-referencing it. Try changing the weapon type from the magnum to something not used by another multiplayer weapon.

I'm pretty sure there's an option for disabling pings from firing weapons so silenced weapons are doable.
Third person weapons could be done but it would be hacky
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XZodia
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by XZodia »

Apart from the following, everything you mentioned sounds doable.

The only options you have for effecting dual wielded weapons, are as follows (found under weap-Barrels):
Dual Weapon Error Acceleration
Dual Weapon Error Deceleration
Dual Weapon Minimum Error
Dual Weapon Error Angle Lower
Dual Weapon Error Angle Upper
Dual Weapon Damage Scale
Jon God wrote: Weapon: Energy Sword
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
One Handed: N/A
Two Handed: N/A
Notes: It would function just like the Halo 2 sword, with the only difference being the weapon charge from Halo 3 included as an option, defaulted to on.
What weapon charge?
Jon God wrote: Weapon: Brute Shot
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
One Handed: N/A
Two Handed: N/A
Notes: For normal firing it would be essentially the same, but as an alternate secondary fire, you could hold down the trigger, which would have the grenade not explode until you release the trigger, which could be timed for explosions on contact with some skill. This would do more damage, at the cost of speed.
Fairly sure this is impossible.
Jon God wrote: Vehicle: Standard Warthog
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: Make it easier to reload without getting out of vehicle for the passenger seat.
Impossible.
Jon God wrote: Vehicle: Scorpion
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: First change would be to switch the machine gun with the machine gun from the Halo 1 tank. Second change would be to make the driver able to be sniped without having to be boarded first. Added second seat could fire a machine gun closer to the Halo 3 machine gun, but only in 270º or so.
All possible, but require advanced techniques.
Jon God wrote: Vehicle: Wraith
Core Balance: Halo 2
Notes: Added second seat from Halo 3, for covenant machine guns.
I think this is possible, but I've never witnessed any way to fire the Wraiths miniguns in multiplayer, so it might be blocked by the xbe.
Jon God wrote: Vehicle: Stationary Covenant Turret
Core Balance: Halo 3
Notes: This would work similarly to the detachable turret from Halo 3.
Detachable turrets are impossible.
Jon God wrote: Third person carried weapons
Correct my if I'm wrong Jackson, but I don't think you can do this, without it applying to all weapons?
Jon God wrote:Mauler
The mauler is basically just a needler...
Jon God wrote:Silenced SMG
Changing the actual sound would be difficult, unless you found something in-game which worked for you.
Jackson, are you talking about Radar? because I'm not aware of any Radar effects from weapons...
Jon God wrote:Also, a big thing, is the Halo 2 Magnum's damage unchangable post patch? I tried changing the damage on the jpt!, then I tried a different jpt!, then I tried a different projectile tied to a different jpt!, and it always seemed to do the same amount of damage.
For this and a few other reasons, we always use the original xbe and add the extra maps to the mainmenu.map
But as Jackson said, there may be ways around it, so the game doesn't recognise the weapon.
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JacksonCougar wrote:I find you usually have great ideas.
JacksonCougar wrote:Ah fuck. Why must you always be right? Why.
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by JacksonCougar »

Weapon: Brute Shot
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
One Handed: N/A
Two Handed: N/A
Notes: For normal firing it would be essentially the same, but as an alternate secondary fire, you could hold down the trigger, which would have the grenade not explode until you release the trigger, which could be timed for explosions on contact with some skill. This would do more damage, at the cost of speed.
Fairly sure this is impossible.
This is actually doable in a rather hack way, just have the trigger latch shoot an effect with a giant ass jpt! to destroy the grenade after it leaves
Jon God wrote: Third person carried weapons
Correct my if I'm wrong Jackson, but I don't think you can do this, without it applying to all weapons?

You could make it a vehicle off the top of my head. Might be other shenanigans you could do. It's been a long time since I looked at those tags.

Just looking at the stuff in moonfish I see a possible way for third person weapons just by changing the animations to move the camera node. And I think there's overrides for fp/3p rendering elsewhere but I don't recall where atm.
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by Jon God »

Just random things to try but try cloning the weapon tag and re-referencing it. Try changing the weapon type from the magnum to something not used by another multiplayer weapon.
Which program should I use for this? I've googled and come up with a bunch of tools prior to getting an account here. I've been toying around with Entity 1.4, but that seems to crash or make the map not load if you dupelicate anything.
I'm pretty sure there's an option for disabling pings from firing weapons so silenced weapons are doable.
Here's a big question, is it possible to add weapons? Is it difficult? I'd love to port the Silenced SMG from my copy of Halo 2 Vista into Halo 2 Xbox.
Third person weapons could be done but it would be hacky
Those last things on the list were more pie in the sky ideas, and aren't worth trying unless they can be done right, so don't worry about it. (I forgot to delete them off the list I copied)

XZodia wrote:
Jon God wrote: Weapon: Energy Sword
Core Balance: Halo 2
Dual Wield: No
One Handed: N/A
Two Handed: N/A
Notes: It would function just like the Halo 2 sword, with the only difference being the weapon charge from Halo 3 included as an option, defaulted to on.
What weapon charge?
Like the one in the campaign, I meant to say, defaults to off. It sounds like the only way here would be to add another sword weapon, which eh. Maybe not worth the trouble.
XZodia wrote:
Jon God wrote:Mauler
The mauler is basically just a needler...
No, the Mauler is the Halo 3 dual weildable shotgun thing. It's again something I think would be interested in seeing in the Halo 2 sandbox, but I am not totally set on that.

For this and a few other reasons, we always use the original xbe and add the extra maps to the mainmenu.map
But as Jackson said, there may be ways around it, so the game doesn't recognise the weapon.
Does that mean using Halo 2 1.0, without the other balance tweaks? I'd be curious to see how that plays.


Also, Off Topic, but since I have a topic started here anyways, what are some good community made maps for Halo 2?
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

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Just random things to try but try cloning the weapon tag and re-referencing it. Try changing the weapon type from the magnum to something not used by another multiplayer weapon.
Which program should I use for this? I've googled and come up with a bunch of tools prior to getting an account here. I've been toying around with Entity 1.4, but that seems to crash or make the map not load if you dupelicate anything.
Get Troy's Entity: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1325
Here's a big question, is it possible to add weapons? Is it difficult? I'd love to port the Silenced SMG from my copy of Halo 2 Vista into Halo 2 Xbox.
Adding is possible, Yes, just duplicate an existing weapon and apply your changes. (Then spawn it using either itmc or mulg)
There is no direct way to port from H2V, (and I wasn't aware the silenced smg was in it? is it a mod?)
But you can certainly copy over the values by hand to the stock smg, and attach a sliencer object to it
XZodia wrote:
Jon God wrote:Mauler
The mauler is basically just a needler...
No, the Mauler is the Halo 3 dual weildable shotgun thing. It's again something I think would be interested in seeing in the Halo 2 sandbox, but I am not totally set on that.
Ah yes, sorry, I remember now, (was thinking of the spiker) you can just duplicate the shotgun, edit values and replace the model

Does that mean using Halo 2 1.0, without the other balance tweaks? I'd be curious to see how that plays.
Yes, it does mean that.

Also, Off Topic, but since I have a topic started here anyways, what are some good community made maps for Halo 2?
Go Here For Maps: viewforum.php?f=11

A Few Highlights:

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1770
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2329
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2333
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JacksonCougar wrote:I find you usually have great ideas.
JacksonCougar wrote:Ah fuck. Why must you always be right? Why.
Jon God
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by Jon God »

XZodia wrote:
Just random things to try but try cloning the weapon tag and re-referencing it. Try changing the weapon type from the magnum to something not used by another multiplayer weapon.
Which program should I use for this? I've googled and come up with a bunch of tools prior to getting an account here. I've been toying around with Entity 1.4, but that seems to crash or make the map not load if you dupelicate anything.
Get Troy's Entity: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1325
This is giving me issues, at least the last version I downloaded did, let me try again.
XZodia wrote:
Here's a big question, is it possible to add weapons? Is it difficult? I'd love to port the Silenced SMG from my copy of Halo 2 Vista into Halo 2 Xbox.
Adding is possible, Yes, just duplicate an existing weapon and apply your changes. (Then spawn it using either itmc or mulg)
There is no direct way to port from H2V, (and I wasn't aware the silenced smg was in it? is it a mod?)
But you can certainly copy over the values by hand to the stock smg, and attach a sliencer object to it
No, it existed in a map included with the mapping tools, but not built, which has been dubbed "Example" which is what the file is called.

A quick Youtube found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-b0RyaJSOfY
XZodia wrote:
Does that mean using Halo 2 1.0, without the other balance tweaks? I'd be curious to see how that plays.
Yes, it does mean that.
Ah shame, I like some of the tweaks, I just don't like that one. ;)


One more Off topic thing: You guys got a chatroom or IRC channel?
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by XZodia »

We don't have a chatroom (at least not one that anybody uses...) but most of us have AIM
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JacksonCougar wrote:I find you usually have great ideas.
JacksonCougar wrote:Ah fuck. Why must you always be right? Why.
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by Jon God »

I've run across a video and some pictures of Halo 2 3volved, it looks like they already ported the Halo 3 magnum to Halo 2. How accurate is it to the Halo 3 one? Also, is it available as an asset anywhere, or is it only for 3volved?
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

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I have a feeling 3volved may have been lost to the mists of time...
If you can find a map you might be able to transfer to magnum to your own.
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by xXF3RcHoXx »

Jon God wrote:I've run across a video and some pictures of Halo 2 3volved, it looks like they already ported the Halo 3 magnum to Halo 2. How accurate is it to the Halo 3 one? Also, is it available as an asset anywhere, or is it only for 3volved?
Basically it is a modded magnum, the 3volved's authors injected a custom model over the h2's pistol one, then meta edited the weapon to change rate of fire and damage, can't recall if it has custom H3 sounds, but probably it didnt, as it's pretty recent that we are able to extract genuine h3 stuff, and that's it.

You can get the pistol's model from Tombstone map.

Refer to this www.remnantmods.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=925
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

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XZodia wrote:I have a feeling 3volved may have been lost to the mists of time...
If you can find a map you might be able to transfer to magnum to your own.
I have a copy of 3volved! I am 300miles from my computer, so I'll upload it as soon as I can.
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by Jon God »

Another question, were the Halo 2 vista maps never ported to Xbox? (District, Uplift and Example?) Is this possible?
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

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Unfortunately, no that was never achieved.
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JacksonCougar wrote:I find you usually have great ideas.
JacksonCougar wrote:Ah fuck. Why must you always be right? Why.
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by Jon God »

XZodia wrote:Unfortunately, no that was never achieved.
Ah disappointing, it'd be great to be able to play those in LAN. Was there some issue with the way the Vista maps were compiled or something?
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by JacksonCougar »

They use different versions of some things
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Re: Some questions on modding Halo 2

Post by CaptainPoopface »

You may be long gone, but this thread caused a spark in me.

The detachable turret can be hacked by having the turret's death explosion spawn a weapon that can be picked up. The weird thing about weapons and vehicles spawned this way is that if you hold still for a minute or two, they disappear and/or you respawn without dying.

Darkshallfall made a hacky but probably optimal 3P weapon by using a vehicle but somehow making the jmad of the vehicle look like the chief's legs walking, so you would "run" around the map or stand still with your legs moving and not quite attached right. That's probably the best it could get, and not ready for primetime in my opinion. I don't think he ever released it, along with some other great ideas of his. Dark! Curse you.

There is a bullet ricochet sound built into all maps that sounds just like a silenced bullet, or at least close enough for me to be satisfied enough to not go importing a custom sound. I think it's something like smg_ricochet_medium. You could use the attachments reflexive of the hlmt to put the model of an air canister (from Headlong) onto the barrel of the SMG, then use a model scaler to shrink it to appropriate size, if you don't want to import models (I never do).

If you want to make reloading faster in the Warthog, you could hack it by shortening the durations of the jmad animation for the passenger entry and dismount. Then you can get out quickly, reload, and get back in quickly. I used this approach for a long-forgotten MarioKart mod, since you can't pick up weapons in a vehicle.

Remote detonation of mines/explosives would be wonderful. I concluded that it was impossible. Dark showed a video or GIF of the approach Jackson mentioned, so it works in theory, but this is too hacky even for me.

Some of the fine tuning you are talking about can be very time intensive. It is highly recommended that you get RealTime Halo working if you want to go after some of the tweaks you mentioned. The stun is finicky to work with in my experience, but certainly rewarding when you take it to extremes. :mrgreen:

When it comes to modding, I believe you are better off taking the game in a new direction rather than emulating a professionally developed game. For example, these kinds of mod are low hanging fruit:
- Make the map dark and give some/all weapons a flashlight
- Make the impact jpt of a grenade deadly, the explosion harmless with 0 force, and have the detonation effect spawn a grenade ammo. A dodgeball mod in 5 minutes!
- Run faster / jump higher. This can be done with subtlety for nice effects (stock run speed is too slow for me), or less subtlety for different gameplay. For example, very high jump with rockets, fuel rod guns, and a deadlier plasma charged bolt. Can effectively shrink maps that are too large for small parties. Also try a slow run speed with a high airborne acceleration, so you move fastest by jumping around. (One example is the button mash hop mod)
- The button mash! Make the jmad animation for melee very short in duration. Attach an effect that spawns an ammo for the gun. Have that ammo give one bullet to the gun. Have each shot spend 1/3 or 1/2 the ammo. So you get to fire two or three times, then you have to melee 12 times and hit X to reload. Fun times.
- Boxing: Make every gun melee instead of firing. Disable the death from behind melee. Use a small map. This was the Cellmates mod, minus the stun gun, cinder block and shiv.
-Try my powerups mod and see if you like any of those. High jump, invisibility and jetpack are very easy and system linkable with no fixing necessary. The grappling gun is much more ornate but so awesome. Adrenaline is somewhere between those in difficulty.
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