wtf is going on at Halomods >_<

[DoorM4n]

Actually, the Outstanding Mods Section ordeal has always been debated. You are not the first one to bring up the idea that it is biased. I'll skim around when I get bored, it isn't a big deal to me thus making me not very interested in the amount of time spent on it. However, using the methods I typically use it must have taken many hours. I don't mean to be harsh or intolerant of what your saying at all, but people who state that they can do better at something already developed, usually don't back up what they are saying. That statement displayed a negative attitude but I don't have any poor feelings toward the situation. I just hate the idea that someone can "bash" a mod without first giving proof of a more prominent mod made by himself (not entirely sure about the grammar on that ).

If you have ever created a mod that has excelled BTeezie's mod than I would definitely have a different outlook on this entire dispute. Not to be offended with such an ancient expression but, "If you can talk the talk, be sure you can walk the walk."

I'm just trying to think logically here. My feelings are not illiberal.

[neodos]

To Tural:

No i am not trying to get anti halomods members, i am just saying what happened, what veegie did at HM is even worst, quoting me and locking the topic so i can only reply by PM? that's what i am saying it's not fair.

Yes i wouldn't like to see my mod leaked, however there's a difference between a sppf or mapfile that can be modified again that they only way to get leaked is to conciously give it to a person.
A gametype which is a file that can be easly, quick and fast stolen by just joining the h3 pregame lobby, also please tell to the creators to not forget to close their h3 lobbies when they play mods that they don't want to see "leaked" because if you let the lobby opened so those who join automaticaly the lobby get the gamesave.
You can't call that a leak it's the fault of the party leader and also bungie stated that if the gamesaves get leaked they can't do anything, i was posting a link to a bungie.net profile; the stickied post didn't talk about not posting links to bungie.net profiles that could have "leaked" gamesaves because indeed you can't say what is leaked there is the problem, it only specified leaked content, specify more please, there was a second post non stickied with the name "halo 3 mods proof" which doesn't sound for anything like "don't post modded leaked gametypes" and by the fact that it wasn't stickied i didn't read it because i already know that h3 mod exist so i really really really didn't know that it was leaked, also you knew that i posted the link because someone quoted me but i edited the post to remove the link right after that person quoted me.

Now once a gamesave gets "leaked" the people will get it faster and faster as h3 fileshare and players joining a lobby with modded gamesaves grows exponentialy, and you know that bungie won't stop it, that also you can't do anything, anymore for that leaked modded gamesave.

And what are you talking about getting credits?

Actually there's just a few people that can resign con live pirs files in this world, they don't even want to say what gamesave mods they made, so really who are you trying to respect like that if he doesn't even represent his mods by his name?
You want to get credits for your gamesaves? get respect from the halo 3 players that doesn't really know what is modding and that are allmost all kids?

Those modded gamesaves are like any other normal gamesave made by any halo 3 player, player1 make a great map with forge, he post it on bungie, a lot of people take it and sometimes playerX will show to his friends saying playerX made it, that's what happens that's when you loose credits, you loose credit for some kids, wow.

It's exaclty what happens on art, ideas are leaked, or copied/based on someoneelse's ideas.

You can't do much for that, it's not fair but it's like that, there's the copy right, you could use the copy right, but you can't because gamesaves are on bungie server they manage it and you can't tell to bungie "please stop those people leaked my modded gamesaves"

So in my opinion your "dontpostlinkstobungie.netprofilesbecausetheycouldhaveleakedmoddedgamsavesandevenifyoudontknwoyougetRCed" rule is SHIT.

Bungie said, if you get your gamesave leaked blame yourself, so really imo that's really annoying for the people that got RCed, it's just a little gamesave, all modders know the few people that can do this, so they can recognize the real author, but not entireley because they only show some screenshots and don't tell who made those modded gamesaves.
In this case they loose credit when kids that doesn't know about modding get the gamesave that someone else is faking the author name, just like any other gamesave that goes from file share to fileshare.

What's the deal? getting famous? it's not a money deal, when the first halo 2 mods came out there was a loot of screenshots of mods all over the internet and no one talked about leak, you guys are doing everything to get credit but actually it seems like that only those who made the tools will mod halo 3, and only them, so stop bitching about credits we all know here who makes the mods.

[XZodia]

Doorman, look throught the tags before u say he put a shitload of work into it, and read the thread too(H2C and H2G and i can make that map in less than 30 mins, sans placements.

Thats a stupid argument
Its the placements that are the hardest part...so thats kinda like saying "I can make a great mod which includes projectile swaps sans everything but the projectile swaps" wtf mb?

[DoorM4n]

Actually I considered the AI elements, as well. Wait, I am thinking of the sp mod. :p
I guess it is fine but kind of strange that you judge mods based on other mods. haha No biggie.

Try looking at Beezie's thread here. He states in his post that all scenery and bloc have been restored to match original. So number 1, thats an option thats been in every core/h2g since the beginning, so he didnt do THOSE placements.

If I could go to Halomods, I would select the link. You somehow managed to motivate me to play it...
Anyhow, there are actually a few features in NightOPs that strike me. First, getting the bsp to work is very simple, fog, weather, lightmap, etc. Sure, it is all simple but that is just it. This mod is clean-cut and presents new models, sounds, environment and provides a completely new mp map. Sure, it could use some work in few places but all mods do. I won't play it online but it seems like it would be fun. The whole idea of it being a new mp map with new weapons seems to intrigue me.

We all have our opinions and so it is cool if you disagree. It really isn't something to get riled up for. If you really disagree with the Halomods moderators, pull off what I did. I provoked and threatened until I became banned. The plan worked beautifully.

[Tural]

validification

lol mr proper english and grammer, thats not even in the dictionary, reaching for big words, it would appear.

You're so cool now. That's so clever how you pointed out a word which I typed whilst knowing it was not a true word. No other word correctly expresses the idea I am conveying with such word, and the use of such a word accurately presents the concept I am reaching for in a coherent manner. It is used assuming the reader has a reasonable level of intelligence, capable of seeing what I have described. Does it, or does it not, convey the intended meaning? It does. Whether it is a word or not is irrelevant, as I am typing an informal message. The concepts are more important than the words used to convey them. If they are understandable, it is perfectly fair to utilize them. Now, unless you have something intelligent to say, rather than picking fights based on some stupid reason, please do so. Otherwise, achieve a reasonable level of intellect and respond to my post's meaning.

@neodos:
I will agree that responding to your post in such a manner isn't really fair, but it is not the issue at hand.

If you give a mod to someone and they give it to someone else, they leaked it. Is it your fault that the person who you gave it to is irresponsible? The author should be blamed for giving it to anyone, by your logic. Saying that it should be allowed because someone came in, got it, and publicized it is not fair to the authors. That is not the way it works. It is a leak because it was taken without permission and released. Bungie stated leaks can't be enforced, but we are not Bungie. We have different rules. We are enforcing it on behalf of the author, not the game.


"and by the fact that it wasn't stickied i didn't read it"
And yet you didn't read the rules, which had a new post in them. Your "It wasn't stickied" argument does not work, because the rules are stickied, and you did not read them either.

"that also you can't do anything, anymore for that leaked modded gamesave."
We know we can't stop it, but we can stop people from doing it on our site, which is what we are doing. We can't stop Halo 2 Live modding either, but that doesn't stop us from having rules against it. We can't stop people from downloading warez, but we have rules against that. What happens off-site can't be stopped, but we can stop it on our site, which is exactly what we are doing. Also, there was no leaked gametype, if that is what you are referring to. The gametype was released by Anthony, on purpose.

"And what are you talking about getting credits?"
Anthony, Veegie, and Shade have personally told me that the reason the mods have not yet been released by them is because of credit. If they could find a way to have their credit not stolen from them from people like SligStorm, who has frequently stolen Anthony's work and claimed it, they would be happy to release them and nobody would have to go through this leaking crap. Again, we know people will steal credit, and we know we can't always stop it. However, you are looking at the big picture, we are looking at the site. We are stopping it from happening on Halomods. We can not stop it elsewhere, as you think we are trying to do.

"dontpostlinkstobungie.netprofilesbecausetheycouldhaveleakedmoddedgamsavesandevenifyoudontknwoyougetRCed"
That is not what you did, however. You did not post a thread with an innocent link that happened to have mods on it, you posted a thread about the mods. IF someone posted a link that had a mod on it, but they didn't know, or it was in another discussion, we would just remove the link, not punish them for it. You did it because of the mods, you weren't saying, like, "Look at this guy's screenshots" and that profile happened to have mods on it. You posted it specifically to post the mods. They are very different situations.

And I am not doing this because I want to, so stop harassing me as though I am the one enforcing it because of credit. Get Anthony to tell me it's allowed and I will allow it. He created it, he has the right to say he doesn't want it posted. You need to be upset with him, not me.

[JacksonCougar]

Tural I want to agree with you, and I do in a certain way, about the Forge Mod but I can't.

This is my understanding and assumptions, please correct me if I error.

The mod was a Forge Variant map.

Everything in the mod was default Bungie items, things that existed in the map already.


So its my opinion if these things are true that this "mod" is not unlike a normal forge map except that it has been edited in ways you cannot do normally in forge.

But it was played on Live, and its being distributed through Live, using a tool that Bungie made specifically to create user-made content.

From my point of view Forge Maps (or Mods) should not be considered the same as a mod that has user created content in it, or custom models, or intellectual concepts in them.

This forge map as far as I can discern just spawns new items in it, in ways that cannot be normally done. It does not have a skin, or edits to the map that creates something unique.

What I am trying to get at is that from my understanding it does not contain things that should need "crediting" except for the fact that it contains things that nobody can do normally. Its hard to describe the line I'm trying to paint here... Its like taking a book, and reordering the paragraphs in it to create a new story; none of the actual ideas, or thought is new, its just arranged differently; but mods like a skin, usually have bitmaps and art that the creator spent time making, and they have a legitimate right to that work.

I don't know, if you get what I mean :\

edit: I;ve never played this mod btw, so this is just my conjecture.

[Remnant Samurai]

i neva saw pics of the mod

[Tural]

Jackson, I can see what you're trying to say with the book analogy, but it isn't really accurate. The items in the map can not be placed there normally through Forge, so they are not really like paragraphs in a book. I don't have an accurate analogy to make, but the book one isn't it.

Let's say someone makes a race track on Containment using only the gates and such as the track. They add nothing to the map itself, they're just spawning more items. Is that not a mod? Is it not their work put in? The Forge variant mods should be no different. These people developed tools to interpret the variant files, and be able to edit them. They have tools made to resign the files, to make them playable. When their work is stolen and someone else's name is put on it, they lose any recognition of the programs, of the research, and of the modification itself. They did the work to make it, and they are receiving no credit for doing it. That is their complaint. They are working on ways to watermark, if you will, the maps, preventing them from having their credit removed. If they succeed, expect the rules to change. It's a simple problem, with a not-so-simple solution. All they want is people to respect them for the work they've been doing to make this possible for everyone, and by giving out their work with no regard to their feelings, they are inclined to no longer help the community, because the community is utterly disrespecting them if they continue to circulate these mods. The people at Bungie.net aren't really the problem right now. The people at Halomods are the people they are making the tools for, to give something to the community later, the least the community could do is respect their wishes to wait until they are ready. When such a big event happens, getting blown out of proportion like this has been, they see that people don't care to respect them, to give them credit for their work, they see that people just want to play the mods, and they don't give a fuck how they get it or how it was made. They wouldn't care if it was stolen from someone's house and the creator was shot and killed during the robbery, they just want their mods. It's despicable. Prove this concept wrong, show the community does care about the people working hard to give something to it, and you shall be much more likely to receive it.

[JacksonCougar]

I agree with you on the lack of recognition for their work.

[JacksonCougar]

twitch

Can we stop the hating a lil' guys? Eternal your harassing him about a fucking word

Suriously, liek lay off dat >_<

[DoorM4n]

I recommend locking this thread because arguments that are not face-to-face tend to last an eternity. Trust me, I have had my fair share of dumb arguments. They are not worth it and if I wouldn't have had an epiphany, I would still be "fighting the power."

[JacksonCougar]

twitch

I don't want to :\

If people are interested in a topic they can post. If Tural wants to defend, or argue against peoples posts, thats reasonable. If people want to be dinks and harass each other in the cafe thats cool to. Simply put: if you don't like the content, don't read the thread

[DoorM4n]

Good point, haha, the focus of this argument is hilarious, by the way.

[JacksonCougar]

twitch

I'm not here to control how you think...

[DemonicSandwich]

twitch

Why twitch?

[Tural]

Heh. E73RN4L is a funny guy. Picking a fight over a simple thing, blowing it out of proportion, and making into a huge personal attack. Funny how one could assume that's an effective strategy for arguing. Hilarious, really. Well E73RN4L, your name is spelled with numbers, and is thus read aloud as "E-Seven-Three-R-N-Four-L." This is a huge issue. I am deeply offended that you would use this is a name. Even though it conveys the same meaning as "Eternal," you are clearly lacking a reasonable level of intelligence for using it.
Do you see how stupid it is to argue like that now? Continue to harass me all you want, I can't take anything you say seriously anymore.

Legitimization is the word I was looking for. Didn't come to me as I was typing that, so I improvised. Sue me.

in b4 E73RN4L makes another personal attack for no reason.

I also find it interesting that DoorM4n is the voice of reason here. =p

I wonder how this conversation would go if everyone was required to actually converse with me, over Live or another medium. As is stands right now, there is only one person I've conversed with that I didn't get along with. (Shadow Lag being that person. He went out of his way to just insult me at every opportunity. I couldn't even talk to him because he was too ignorant to listen to anything I said. I'd like to think this is not the case with the members here, and that one could initiate a decent conversation if they had an issue with something. E73RN4L, in all honesty, you have not demonstrated this. neodos has provided me a legitimate discussion, as has DoorM4n; you have not.) The internet doesn't carry tones well, and it's a lot easier to argue here, as one has the ability to take as much time as they need to build a large case. I have no will to argue with people making such claims in conversation, as it's simply too tedious. If you got to know me, you'd realize how dramatic of a difference the medium can make. You don't really have authority to make a personal attack on me, as you have never had a chance to know me personally, or in any way outside of my posts, which, in all fairness, are nearly polar-opposite of my true personality.

I'm torn between leaving and staying in this thread. On one hand, it's given some good discussion. On the other hand, there are some baseless attacks. I like to discuss issues people have, but when they're just attacking me, it makes me inclined to just ignore them, which then leads to them continuing their attacks and leaving me defenseless. I suppose I'll side with the former, as opposed to the latter, because I'm tired of arguing with people over stupid shit all of the time. If you want to talk to me about a real issue, and you are not just going to be a douche, feel free to PM me or something. As for now, I'm done here. Too much effort when I know people will just continue because the people making such stupid attacks are not going to listen to reason anyways. Cheers E73RN4L, you now have a dead horse to beat, which I'm sure you will do happily.

[JacksonCougar]

twitch

[neodos]

Allright Tural, i though they wanted to get credits from bungie.net community which wouldn't have any sense at all because they don't know modding and Anthony,Shade, whoever worked on that because they don't say names yet are just showing that they won't release those apps which makes everysingle modder at HM impatient.

However all modders at HM knows actually that only them have those apps because they made it, so you can't say that people doesn't know who made these apps, they may not credits on their future mods, because we all know who made it, if they want credit they could simply add a pop-up at the start of the app just like in insolence with the names of the authors.

And if the apps are not ready, because this happenned too many times, that they start showing screenshots of what they do with their WIP apps and then say "its not ready" it's normal to see people pissed off, then they recieve bad feeback about their work with no release date, we all get bored and the app is not finished or simply not released.

Also note that some modders add credit for the apps on their mod post's.

And where is gone the "mod for fun, not for fame?" actually those who make the apps are not always respected for the reasons i just explained.

[JK-47]

And where is gone the "mod for fun, not for fame?"

Sad truth is, almost no one follows that anymore.

[OwnZ joO]

I don't do anything for fame on here, I've never released stuff to become famous. The only things I've released were programs that would hopefully be helpful.

[JK-47]

Same. I've only released a couple of mods out of the many mods I've made (for Halo PC anyway :p) for that reason pretty much. Anything I've made was just for fun and for my own educational reasons.

[Kirk]

No offense man, but I think you're taking this far too seriously.

[neodos]

Shouldn't be this topic locked now? i think we all said what we had to say :/

[Supermodder911]

This topic is like garbage. >_>

Why does everyone want to argue with Tural for?

Whats the point?

[JacksonCougar]

I know But liek... yea .... Its just Eternal really... he's just... like that