<Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

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troymac1ure
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<Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by troymac1ure »

Okay, so a thought hit me yesterday and after testing it today, I managed to clone 30+ scenery chunks ON ASCENSION with no glitches.
First off, you need a good plugin. Try this one:
scnr.ent
SNCR.ENT plugin
(107.81 KiB) Downloaded 435 times
1) Make a backup of your map
2) Open your map in Entity
3) Duplicate the SNCR tag and give it a different name (such as "scenarios\multi\unused\unused", doesn't matter)
4) Click on both SNCR tags and record the IDENT numbers
5) Open the map in your favorite HEX editor
6) Search for the original IDENT value (remember to reverse the Hex digits)
ex: E1780003 (Ascension) Search for 03 00 78 E1
Ignore the first value found, this is a listing for the SCNR tag (will be followed shortly after by "sgat")
find the second listing and write down the 8 bytes after the IDENT (will be immediately proceded by "rncs")
7) Search for the new IDENT value (reversed again)
Write down the 8 bytes following it's IDENT value.
8) Exchange the 8 byte values between the two tags
ex (IDENTs in Bold):
BEFORE:
orig: 03 00 78 E1 98 C4 1B 80 88 7D 00 00
new: 98 11 1D F3 AC FE 55 80 1C 80 00 00
AFTER EXCHANGE:
orig: 03 00 78 E1 AC FE 55 80 1C 80 00 00
new: 98 11 1D F3 98 C4 1B 80 88 7D 00 00
9) Load the map up in Entity again
10) Clone your chunks as usual in the original SCNR tag (notice the offset will now have changed)
11) Sign your map

Here's the idea behind it. Cloning chunks tends to screw up your map, especially in the SNCR tag, so we make a duplicate of the tag, which relocates it to the end of the map. However, H2 loads the first SCNR tag, so we make the first pointer in the index point to the new tag and the new pointer point to the old tag. Now when we clone chunks, no other meta (other than the UGH!) get shifted, therefore reducing the chance of corrupting the map. Usually, because it is the 3rd tag listed, almost ALL other meta gets moved and any incorrect plugins can brick the map. So if you have issues with this, then chances are we need to do some more work with the SNCR plugin as no others are being touched.
Obviously this will add extra size to your map, but the SCNR tag in Ascension is only 32kb, so :woo:

*Note* This should have no issues being done for any other tag as well. I would recommend doing each tag in it's entirety first, then move on to the next tag, so each tag is at the end of the map and not effecting other tags.
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bumlove
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by bumlove »

clever fella, I'll be trying this tonight, I have a few maps in mind that would really use 100 machs 100 blocks and loads of scenary
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Ogrish
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by Ogrish »

You should make a master map with 200 machs, 200 blocs, 200 scene, and 100 net game from the Onyx map, then we can try to do a bsp conversion, with added weather, and fix SLC.

The map size would be large, but so what.

Then, if it worked, i could finally make REMNANT CITY.
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DoorM4n
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by DoorM4n »

This sounds awesome! I hope this works really well! I know neodos has gotten 140 mach spawns in a map once. Can this reach in the hundreds? Have you tested in other quantities or something much greater than 30? :D
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Ogrish
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by Ogrish »

Eternal had 200 machs, 200, blocs and 200 scene in a bsp conversion, all spawnd in a row and it worked fine, but I was never able to redo this.
And I lost the map he made me long ago when the pc i had crashed.

He may have used scripts spawn some of them.

I have been able to get 200 machs converting gemini but with most conversions you cant add much else to them with Entity or the map breaks.

Edit: Using this plugin and your newest Entity I cant clone shit, I get an error msg every time i try to overwrite the crate placements pallet.
Maybe ive got something wrong in my setup.
Last edited by Ogrish on Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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XZodia
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by XZodia »

Doing that, you'd be better off using simplicity...
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Ogrish
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by Ogrish »

The problem isnt the coner as much as it is the plugins, so saving the SCNR with bad plugins then using Simplicity would be the same.
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bumlove
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by bumlove »

Ogrish wrote:Using this plugin and your newest Entity I cant clone shit, I get an error msg every time i try to overwrite the crate placements pallet. Maybe ive got something wrong in my setup.
I think the idea is duplicate/clone placement or index chunks not entire reflexives

Troy why point the new scnr to the old? I understand pointing old to new but I thought it took the chunk count & the pointer and the .xbe knows the chunk size, so after it comes to the end it goes back to the scnr index where it left off, or am I wrong>?
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troymac1ure
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by troymac1ure »

Ogrish wrote:Using this plugin and your newest Entity I cant clone shit, I get an error msg every time i try to overwrite the crate placements pallet. Maybe ive got something wrong in my setup.
meh. I just used that plugin when I did it. You can use your own and see if it's better. It was just a thought I had that I figure should work.
bumlove wrote: I think the idea is duplicate/clone placement or index chunks not entire reflexives

Troy why point the new scnr to the old? I understand pointing old to new but I thought it took the chunk count & the pointer and the .xbe knows the chunk size, so after it comes to the end it goes back to the scnr index where it left off, or am I wrong>?
My main reason for this is so that there is only one tag pointing to the actually used tag and more importantly, setting the new pointer to the old location shows that there is data there, so if scanning your map, it won't show up as a "hole". I figure it's better to have an usued tag than a section of unreferenced data.
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bumlove
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by bumlove »

So I am unsure......., cloning chunks still offers the problem of no correction of pointers even in tag (am I correct?)
so the best way would be duplicate scnr once for mach placements then re-point the old to the new then do all the cloning/overwriting for mach placements in the new tag. After that duplicate scnr for mach pallet/index etc etc
there is a better way using space stealing as placements and indexes fall next to each other.
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troymac1ure
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by troymac1ure »

If in tage pointers are being screwed up then that proves our scnr plugin is screwed because no other tags are being altered, therefore we need to work on our SCNR.ENT plugin. My thought is that some other tag(s) whose data get shifted are what bricks the maps. If I'm wrong then at least we know that our problem definately lies in SCNR. If I'm right, then we can clone as many SCNR chunks as we want.

Sitting in an airport right now, so added a right-click option to change the active SCNR tag in entity. I'll throw it down the line in a few days probably. I only have about 5 minutes till boarding now.

If you find cloning in SCNR breaking you map, I'd like to see the map to try to alter the plugin accordingly.
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bumlove
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by bumlove »

Safe journeys, I'll give this a hammering tomorrow evening
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by DoorM4n »

Ogrish wrote:Eternal had 200 machs, 200, blocs and 200 scene in a bsp conversion, all spawnd in a row and it worked fine, but I was never able to redo this.
And I lost the map he made me long ago when the pc i had crashed.
That's incredible that he got that working! I need that so badly for my mod! I would have most of this complete right now. How did he manage that? Can this process make that happen?
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bumlove
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by bumlove »

Ogrish wrote:Eternal had.........
I thought that was down to his tinkered with H2C.
DoorM4n wrote:Can this process make that happen?
Back up your map and give it a whirl it should do, post results.
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troymac1ure
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by troymac1ure »

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Damn! Ascension gets slow with 200 Arms spinning around the dish and 200 Jump pads all on top of each other :wink:

oh, yeah... no other glitches 8-)

Image

The above map (200,200,199 < Whoops, meant 200) took all of 3 minutes to do with the new "Set Active..." option.
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XZodia
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by XZodia »

Awesome.
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neodos
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by neodos »

Epic.

Now someone post "ITS OVER 9000" because yes this is awome!
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by DoorM4n »

OH WOW! AWESOME job! I can't wait to use this!
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troymac1ure
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by troymac1ure »

I can't wait for you to put it to use ;)

You should build in whatever you need first probably, then duplicate and clone the chunks. That way, it's still at the end of all the meta.
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by bumlove »

troymac1ure wrote:oh, yeah... no other glitches 8-)
On that map especially, wow
troymac1ure wrote:You should build in whatever you need first probably, then duplicate and clone the chunks. That way, it's still at the end of all the meta.
I didn't think that would matter as long as all scnr cloning is all done at one time, but on second thoughts scnr at the end of the map means no problems fixing system link.
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by DoorM4n »

I loaded that baby up with 200 spawns and it took 5 seconds in the blue screen before it loaded...but it loaded! I'm going to have some new pics of my mod coming up soon! :D
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by DoorM4n »

I've got a problem here, troy. I can add chunks with no problem, but I have a gate I need from zanzibar in my map and I can't Copy and Add reflexives to my map after I do this scenario swap. I can clone chunks but copying and adding always fails. Do you have any ideas man on how to fix this? Does anybody recommend a good scnr plugin?
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XZodia
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by XZodia »

You can copy/paste with Simplcity...
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by DoorM4n »

XZodia wrote:You can copy/paste with Simplcity...
Yeah, but my luck with saving the scenario.info file has been very bad. I haven't been able to save it for some reason. I'll edit my scenario in Simplicity, save it, inject, and see absolutely nothing new. I don't know how to fix it, and it is unfortunate because I really needed that program for some control chunks. I found a way around that problem, however, by shifting my map ideas.
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Re: <Almost> Unlimited SNCR clones

Post by CaptainPoopface »

Aaaaaand 9 months later... Can someone post an Ascension patch with a boatload of spawns? Preferably not so many that I can't import any other tags.

Reach is a fun game, but I really miss the wide range of ideas made possible by modding. The notion of building a map with a lightmap other than Gemini is enticing me out of retirement, especially if it has all the death zones of Ascension.

Cheers everyone.
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